the cut in tax rates. >> the cut in tax rates is lower all american tax rates by 20%. >> how much does that cost? >> it's revenue neutral. >> it's not revenue neutral unless you take away the deductions. we're going to get to that. >> lowering tax rates by broadening the tax base works. and you can -- >> but you haven't given me the math. >> well, i don't have the time -- it would take me too long to go through all of the math. >> what's your response to that answer, steve, just the whole series of back and forth there? >> i think that really that's the wrong argument to have if you're paul ryan. >> what do you mean that's the wrong argument? he's the numbers guy. he's the fiscal responsible face of the republican party, what other -- is he supposed to be on the front line for foreign policy? this was supposed to be his game. why is that the wrong argument? >> i didn't say it was the wrong issue. i said the wrong argument. those are two different things. >> okay. >> to me he's accepting the premise of the questions that taxing and spending and how big the government is and the role of